Mike Phillips, Intro, Questions

Hi Everyone at this forum and Hello to Mike Phillips. I found out about Mike with various web searches researching information for detailing my cars. I don’t do forums or apps as an older Generation Xer but really liked his information, style, and write ups of his classes.

I would like to go to one of Mike’s classes but am not sure if I can make it out to Florida. I’m in California, so if any time he’s on the West Coast I’d be happy to attend!

I have written at length on this forum but upon reflection it just looks like a stream of consciousness writing and would be very tough to go through and piece together. I have rewritten my project below in a concise format for all and posterity.

I thank all for their input and help, especially Mike Phillips.

My project has been detailing a $174k 2022 BMW M760i xDrive V12 in Black Sapphire Metallic. It had only 12k miles on it at 3 years old and was always garage kept. I purchased it CPO from a BMW Dealership and the car was a one-owner personal use only with no accidents (all panels were factory paint). The paint however was subjected to the prior owner’s multiple automatic car washes (can’t believe he did that), some prior misuse of a rotary buffer, marring on the sides of the car because of towels or pressure wiping off product, my misuse of a synthetic cutting compound, and a small portion of the hood instilled with hologram’s based on a 80 year old CEO’s “help”.

30+ Years ago I was a professional detailer with my own mobile auto detailing business. I was in my very early 20’s and detailing all types of cars in my local area. One thing I didn’t use however was a rotary buffer as I was cautioned not to use one for the sake of liability. Everything else I’m pretty good at and have one hell of an eye for detail (although I’m sure Mike has an even better eye).

I’ve always used Production Car Care Products from Stockton, CA. These are professional products not sold in stores but used in auto body and detail shops throughout California. They have been in business since 1979.

I recently purchased a Flex XC 3401 and have been using it on our various cars, with an old Honda Ridgeline as my test mule. I’ve already burned though the edge of the paint on the roof, but also brought old, oxidized panels back to life!

For the small portion of hood hologram damage I had an interesting situation. I went down to Production Car Care headquartered in Stockton, CA and met the owner and chief chemist who is now 80 years old and can barely see. He decided to “help me” by using a high speed rotary buffer on a patch of dirty paint on my hood and induced serious holograms in the process. I stood there in disbelief wondering why in the hell I allowed him to touch the car and with the hood dirty! I guess I thought he knew what he was doing; Not! So I literally had to get in my car and drive away from him as he was still trying to buff and wipe my car while I was in reverse.

I’ve now put in about 55 hours of time to the exterior detail of the car. I don't know if that's dedication, obsession, or just plain crazy. As it stands now, it's in much better shape but still has some issues. The main difference between my days of detailing 30+ years ago and today is the use of the Flex XC 3401 and a new product called “Gemini” from Production Car Care.

I was able to successfully correct the hood and trunk from all the prior damages by cutting a small portion of the clear off with the Flex XC 3401 and polishing to a shine with a diamond cut foam pad. When you look at the car directly in the sun there are circular scratches no farther than about half an inch from the sun; they stop there after that. There are still some swooping line scratches on the hood and trunk from the prior owner's automatic car washes but they are much lessened and I don't think they can be removed without completely removing the clear coat.

The sides of the car still have burnishing and waviness, please see the attached video clip. I am going to purchase Dr. Beasley’s NSP 45 to try and work on that. You can only see this in certain angles of sunlight. This is the last piece of the puzzle I need help on.

Otherwise the car has a very reflective black mirror finish with serious shine.

I asked for help along the way and that spurred a number of good ideas from the community but I think of one concept from Mike that really helped and was the best piece of knowledge: that the clear coat is no thicker than a post-it note. What I was doing is cutting the clear down (hopefully symmetrically or evenly) and this afforded a “new” paint job. BUT there is only so much you want to cut for the long term protection of the car and in case of future unforeseen problems.

I used only Production Car Care products which are only sold to professionals and are not available to the public although they are now starting to sell them direct. I used Gemini, Wash/Wax, Film Cleaner, Le Cera Amarilla Carnauba Wax, Teflon Polymer Sealant, a Blue Wool Pad, and a Yellow Diamond Cut Foam Pad.

Along the way my wife gave me encouragement: “I love you and want you to be happy and peaceful. Please keep Black Beauty in perspective. It is a 3 year old car that someone else drove and took care of differently than you would. The average person looks at Black Beauty and sees a fabulous performance automobile with elegant lines and a powerful engine and luxurious finishes and never sees any scratches” and “You have worked so hard to fix the damage by others and I am very proud of your determination and creative thinking.”

I like Mike’s Style, learned a lot reading his writings and watching his videos and thank him for his input. I also thank all the others who have helped too. Thank you All!

Wow! You've really been through a lot with detailing your own car.


For reference, I found this picture of a 2022 BMW M760i Final V12 in Saphire Metallic Black.




Tick Busy
I'm prepping the garage for some brand-new TV segments for My Classic Car with Dennis Gage next week, so I need to stay busy in the garage getting ready. As soon as I can though, I'm happy to chime in with my thoughts.

I will share this however. FIRST - it's been years, maybe decades since I used any products from Production. But here's what I know, the MOST IMPORTANT factor when it comes to polishing paint and even things like fiberglass, plastics and aluminum, is the ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY. I've met a lot of detailers that think THEY are the most important thing, but as you'll see in the article I link to below, the first thing that's touching the paint is not the PERSON - but the abrasive technology.

And here's the deal. If the abrasive technology is not great, you'll never get great results. And "yes" I know it's the year 2025, but that does not automatically mean everything in a compound or polish bottle is good.

Fact is, MOST manufacturers cannot make their own abrasive technology so they must purchase the grains, or powders from a much larger company that specializes in taking the raw materials and converting them to useable abrasive technology in a compound, polish or All-in-One. This means most companies are purchasing their abrasive technology from companies like Ferro or St. Gobain. Nothing wrong with this but it kind of means most manufactures are purchasing from the same source.

Again, I don't know of the compounds and polishes from Production are great or something else, but the way you test is on BLACK paint. Great abrasive technology is able to remove defects without leaving its own defects behind. And the only way to truly know for sure is to test on soft, black paint, or technically, soft black single stage or soft clearcoat over black. This way you're eyes can more easily see the true results.

Years ago, I tested a product for a big-name company and this new compound was supposed to be great. I sent the manufacturer's rep my results, which I documented with PICTURE - that their new compound/polish left micro-marring in the paint. This included applying it by hand, orbital polisher and rotary polisher. This person fired back in an email that I didn't know what I was talking about. They moved forward and launched the compound/polish and it blew up in their face as people found it did exactly as I photo documented. Since then, they re-introduced it but I have not used it this new formula. Because it's for sale, I can assume they got it right the second time. (hopefully). I also just recently found these pictures.

Here's my article, check it out.

Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint

And as I get time, I'll read through all your info and do what I can to help.

Also for what it's worth, I regularly have people fly from California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho to take my classes. I never disappoint and my write-ups for my classes, (no other instructor does this), proves just how hands-on they truly are.


Hang tight.

Mike

p.s.

If you send me some pictures I can add them to your thread.

Text or Email - try to make sure they are full size, not tiny pictures

760-515-0444
ShowCarGarage@gmail.com


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Thanks for the video, what I see looks like light marring. Marring is the kind, gentle word for very light scratching.

I've polished a lot of different types of paint in my life and one of the reasons I joined the Dr. Beasley's team was because their abrasive technology is unique to Dr. Beasley's.

Besides polishing out all the wiper scratches out of the windshield on this rare 1969 GTO, I also polished the paint. This is BEFORE I joined Dr. Beasley's. I have 4-5 different brands of recognized, good brands of compounds and polishes and everything I used on the modern single stage urethane paint on the GTO would remove the swirls and scratches but would leave micro-marring behind.

I had some Dr. Beasley's NSP Primers that I had not tested. So I tested the NSP 45 over a section I buffed with a big name brand and it removed 100% of the marring. I've repeated this over and over again on all kinds of cars with known soft paint.

Removing Windshield Swirls, Scratches & Wiper Marks on a ’69 GTO with Dr. Beasley’s NSP GL by Mike Phillips





I would suggest getting some NSP 95 and NSP 45 and one or both of these should fix the problem. Test using a soft foam polishing pad and/or soft foam finishing pad with either in a Test Spot and then inspect.

NSP 45

NSP 95


Also just to note, one of the reasons ceramic coatings are very popular is because they make a semi-permanent bond to the paint and as such, won't wear off like waxes and synthetic or teflon paint sealants via micro-abrasion each time you wash the car.

Mike

V12 Dermatology said:

Quick question: Could I have induced scratches using the Flex at Speed 6 and from pressure with a foam pad?

The foam pad would be softer or medium soft. Let’s take the product out of the equation. I feel there’s now short random scratches, like a half an inch, over the paint where I used the Flex XC 3401 at Speed 6 with a medium soft foam pad with firm pressure.

Click to expand...

The answer is yes - with an exception.

Generally speaking, gear-driven orbital polishers will not finish down as nicely and more consistently on soft paints. For soft paints, I switch over to a free spinning random orbital polisher and soft foam finishing pad.

These companies all make free spinning random orbital polishers and there's plenty more companies that also make this style of polisher.

• RUPES BigFoot 15mm
• Griot's Garage G9 (9mm)
• Porter Cable 7424XP (8mm)
• Harbor Freight 6" DA (8mm)

For the most part, if I need a free spinning random orbital polisher, I'll use a short stroke option as short stroke, free spinning, random orbital polishers are less prone to pad stalling compared to long stroke. It has to do with the leverage the outer edge of a spinning buffing pad has over the spindle.


Mike

Over the course of my being on detailing forums, there have been horror stories about certain black paints that mar if you look at them wrong, in that they will get marred just from wiping the polish off, etc.

I think there were certain eras of GM black that were like this, and perhaps Honda also, but one that sticks out was the BMW Jet Black. It seems BMW has developed another black to frustrate detailers.

I’ll throw in my two cents for what it’s worth. Take it or leave it.
I’ll never touch a gloss black base coat / clear coat FACTORY paint with a wool wheel. Not a wool PAD, a wool WHEEL. I’ve made that mistake and ended up just about where you are today.
That being said, I’ll drop the names of some products that have worked for ME and what I do.
Here’s my approach for Black Cars, Trucks, Etc ;
Wash the vehicle, not rocket science.
Decontaminate the vehicle via clay bar or in my business as of late a clay mitt, sometimes I’ll even use the clay mitt as a wash mitt and skip a step.
Air dry, not towel dry. First of all it’s faster and second of all you are not taking the risk touching the surface with a dirty towel.
From there, I’m old school and don’t have the latest Flex line of tools, but what I do have is a corded Dewalt Rotary (Mike will bust my balls for that but I’ll take it) I’ll run a medium / heavy cut foam pad on 600-1400 RPM (Orange Typically per industry standard, sometimes Green) with Meguiars 105 Ultra Cut Compound, first left to right then top to bottom making 2 obvious clear passes over the panel. I’ll hit the vehicle with a quick detailer spray to remove residue and switch to a Blue or sometimes (but rarely) black foam pad with Meguiars 205 Ultra Finishing Polish also at 600-1400 RPM, first left to right then top to bottom making 2 obvious clear passes over the panel.
All via rotary. I do not even own an orbital, (another ball busting by Mike)
From there I’ll use a paste wax with a black foam pad 600rpm followed by a ceramic detailer to remove any residues.
No issues, no complaints ; so I’ll stick to that!
Black is a pain, but when it’s nice it’s nice.
This is my process for a FACTORY paint, AVERAGE, CUSTOMER Vehicle. When we get into Custom Paint, Personal Vehicles and Show Cars the process varies, as do the products I use. A foam pad is a foam pad is a foam pad, get them on Amazon.
The only thing I am curious is what the RPM is on the Flex 3401 at Speed 6? I have found higher RPM to sometimes burn the compound and cause marring.
And I don’t use too much pressure down on the machine either, first of all because my Dewalt Rotary weighs enough as it is I don’t feel a need to man handle the thing and secondly when I lean on it too hard with a foam pad I tend to also burn the compound. Let the abrasive technology do the work!
For context my shop is LOADED with LED lights whom are NOT your friend when buffing dark colors but if it looks good under those lights it will CERTAINLY look good in the sun light.

Thanks
Don

V12 Dermatology said:

I assume it’s impossible to have a completely spider web scratch free used black paint.

Click to expand...

Well, that's what the car dealers say.

If you keep doing the same thing, I expect you will keep getting the same results.

Mike has made some suggestions, so has Dsholes78. I have been on detailing forums for over 20 years, and I have never heard of Production Car Care Products until now. It could be they are the best-kept secret on the internet...or there could be another reason.

I don't have much else I can add that I have not already shared.

One thing for sure, detailing any car starts with doing a Test Spot. That is, before buffing out the entire car only to be let down in the final results, you start by testing the products, pads, tools and your unique technique to ONE SMALL SECTION of paint.

The idea is to test and PROVE the products, pads, tools and technique you THINK will work - do in fact work BEFORE buffing out the entire car. If the results from your Test Spot do not work to your expectations, then this is when you start testing different products, pads, tools and technique.

The term TEST SPOT and where it came from by Mike Phillips


Mike

V12 Dermatology said:

30+ Years ago I was a professional detailer with my own mobile auto detailing business.

Click to expand...

Let me add this...things have changed a lot in 30+ years. The practice of using a glaze (like Liquid Ebony) or heavy wax, as you are doing, to (temporarily) hide paint defects, which was common back then (and may still be now), is something that we eschewed here in the forum world 20 years ago in favor of actually correcting paint, as polishes and machines improved, and most importantly, forums and later YouTube allowed good techniques to be developed and shared.

One of the people most responsible for the sharing of this information was...Mike Phillips.

V12 Dermatology said:

I’ve always used Production Car Care Products from Stockton, CA. These are professional products not sold in stores but used in auto body and detail shops throughout California.

Click to expand...

I will point out that auto body shops and production detail shops are generally not known for producing the kind of results you are looking for on your BMW, and tend to pick their products based on cost. Mike Phillips used to train people in "auto body and detail shops" in the PNW, and if he says he hasn't used any Production products in decades...there is probably a reason for that. Although in some contexts a "professional" product means it's a better one...not in all contexts.

My PM offer to connect you with an Autopia member who is in your area and has corrected many, many black BMW's is still open.

Hi Mike, to address the Marring on the sides (video clip above) can you provide help for these questions?

I am going to use Dr. Beasley’s NSP 45. I purchased it based on your recommendation.

So I’ll be using the Flex XC 3401 with NSP 45 with a Polishing Pad you recommend.

> Can you tell me which polishing pad to use, size, and the brand?
> Then what speed do I set the Flex at?
> How many passes?
> How much pressure?

Afterwards I assume I need to follow up with a DA (Random Orbital) buffer with a finishing pad. Let’s assume I will use a Porter Cable 7424XP.

> I would also use the NSP 45 too for this correct?
> Can you tell me which pad to get? In your videos you say a black finishing pad, from where, who?
> What speed setting for the DA for the final finishing step?
> How many passes?
> What type of pressure?

Thank you!

I would TEST a NON gear-driven orbital polisher first. I would want to see if a free spinning random orbital polisher with a soft foam finishing pad together with the NSP 45 will remove the marring and get the finish to where you want it.

Just in case the paint on the BMW is on the soft side, then two things,

1: Free spinning, random orbital polishers finish out nicer and more consistently on soft paint than gear-driven polishers - so TEST FIRST a free spinning random orbital polisher because if this works, it will save you a step.

2: If testing with a free spinning, random orbital polisher does NOT work, you can either switch to a more aggressive pad (like polishing pad, not a finishing pad), test with the same product and same tool.


Always use the least aggressive process to get the job done. This leaves more paint on the car and you can always get more aggressive if the first process you try doesn't work.


Make sense?


Mike

Hi Mike, Yes I got it, I understand.

Do you have foam pads that you can recommend for me to purchase? I’m looking for a continuum (strongest to softness) meaning:

Wool
Foam Compounding
Foam Strong Polishing
Foam Medium Polishing
Foam Light Polishing
Foam Finishing

Could you tell me which pads to get from Dr. Beasley’s or another manufacturer that you can recommend?

Also do you have links and a directory of all the online articles you have written and online videos posted? I would assume you might have this organized on your home hard drive. Do you have a directory of links on where to get this info?

All I can do right now is do keyword searches and then some things pop up.

Thank you.

I have over a 1000 articles on the AutogeekOnline.net forum - Here's how you find them,

Go to Google and type in your key search word like polish glass like this,

polish glass mike phillips www.autogeekonline.net

This will tell Google to find glass polishing content on the Autogeek forum using the key search words - polish glass mike phillips


Because I ALWAYS take a few extra seconds to add key words to all the photos I've uploaded over the decades, Google works great for finding my content. I normally search Google IMAGES and then when I see an image that relates to the key search words, I click on the image in and in most cases, it takes me to articles.


As for foam pads, I truly like the Buff and Shine EdgeGuard foam pads mostly for the SHAPE of the outer edge of the pad. The foam formulas are also great as is the adhesive that glues the foam to the velcro backing. That said, pads are normally the least important factor as long as you're choosing the TYPE Of pad that fits with what you're trying to do.

For example, if you're compounding, you're probably going to be using a foam cutting pad, not a foam finishing pad. And I included this in the article that I already shared.

Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint

Mike

Hi Mike -

I’ll order some. I want to purchase some of the products you mention, like in your tipping analogy article. Yes, I think Google does a better search than within the site itself. I’ll do that as well.

Is there another step after NSP 45 before you do your wax/sealant/ceramic? Like an even more minor, refining step?

It seems 150 -> 95 -> 45 -> wax/seal/ceramic

But any other refining product after 45 but before the protectant?

I have a feeling you might be familiar with BBS back in the day. Those were dial up Bulletin Board Systems before the internet came about. You would call other computers up with your modem over a telephone line. Just because of your knowledge running the forum and your age I think you might have done those before.

It’s would be awesome if you had a dedicated part of this site with a menu structure that is a repository of all of your knowledge and also all of your videos. Divided up into sections with clickable links, coded easily for desktop or phone viewing. Maybe you could paywall it for cash. Although people would just copy and paste the stuff. But I love learning about this stuff from your expertise and I know lots of other people do too.