Mike Phillips, Intro, Questions

[V12 Dermatology]

Hi Everyone at this forum and Hello to Mike Phillips. I found out about Mike with various web searches researching information for detailing my cars. I don’t do forums or apps as an older Generation Xer but really liked his information, style, and write ups of his classes.

I would like to go to one of Mike’s classes but am not sure if I can make it out to Florida. I’m in California, so if any time he’s on the West Coast I’d be happy to attend!

I currently have a project I’m working on and could use some help. 30+ Years ago I was a professional detailer with my own mobile auto detailing business. I was in my very early 20’s and detailing all types of cars in my local area. One thing I didn’t use however was a rotary buffer as I was cautioned not to use one for the sake of liability. Everything else I’m pretty good at and have one hell of an eye for detail (although I’m sure Mike has an even better eye).

First, I’ve always used Production Car Care Products from Stockton, CA. These are professional products not sold in stores but used in auto body and detail shops throughout California. Has anyone heard of them?

Second, I recently purchased a Flex XC 3401 and have been using it on our various cars, with a 2008 Honda Ridgeline as my test mule. I’ve already burned though the edge of the paint on the roof, but also brought old, oxidized panels back to life!

My current project is detailing my 2022 BMW M760i xDrive V12. I bought it CPO from a BMW Dealership with only 12k miles on it and still with the new car warranty. It’s in fantastic overall shape, with no accidents and looks always kept in a garage and driven to the country club. It however looks like it was brought to an automatic car wash and in one part someone misused a rotary buffer where there are swirls on the trunk. My wife and I believe the prior owner (only 1 owner prior) thought he was doing good for the car getting it washed frequently at an automatic wash place, but as you know that’s the stupidest thing you can do to car’s paint. One wash through one of those will ruin a paint job, let alone 50 of them.

I unfortunately started fixing the paint with a synthetic cutting crème and a regular dual action buffer. I only used that on the hood and trunk luckily but I was told it might replicate 1,000 to 2,000 grit. I was left with a lot of micro marring scratches. I then used Film Cleaner, a very fine polish, and redid my work to much success but the micro marring was still there. After I completed the full exterior detail that’s when I realized it wasn’t good enough and I could do better and then found Mike.

Right now here’s where I stand on this and will only concern the hood and trunk, although I have holograms on the sides present from the prior owner’s washes.

Let me continue in the Next Post…

 

[V12 Dermatology]

Continued from above …

So next for the trunk I used a wool pad at speed 4 with the Flex XC 3401. I did three passes, cross hatched with handshake firm pressure. This area also includes a small spoiler (these cars can go 189 mph in Germany). Then I did three passes with a soft foam pad, cross hatched at speed 6. I then put three coats of true high quality carnuba wax on, hand applied with a soft terry towel. I bought a Scangrip Sunmatch 4 (from Mike’s recommendation) and last night in darkness in the garage looked for scratches and didn’t see much or any micro marring. I’m going I pull the car out in the sun in a little bit and will update.

For the hood I had an interesting situation. I went down to Production Car Care headquartered in Stockton, CA and met the owner and chief chemist who is now 80 years old and can barely see. He decided to “help me” by using a high speed rotary buffer on a patch of dirty paint on my hood and induced serious holograms in the process. I stood there in disbelief wondering why in the hell I allowed him to touch the car and with the hood dirty! I guess I thought he knew what he was doing; Not! So I literally had to get in my car and drive away from him as he was still trying to buff and wipe my car while I was in reverse.

When I got home I proceeded to use a dual action buffer with various Production Car Care chemicals to polish out the holograms to some effect, but I still had them and the prior micro marring swirls from my initial detailing with the synthetic cutting compound. So I decided to use the Flex and did 3 passes at speed 6 with the same foam pad as the trunk, and then did 2 more passes at speed 6, cross hatch. I’m using the “Gemini” polish for all of this from Production Car Care. I then applied 2 coats of true Carnauba wax with a fresh terry cloth towel. I used the Scangrip last night in darkness and noted few problems.

I still have very serious scratches on the hood and trunk from the prior owner’s automatic car wash visits. Lots of these are long swooping lines, with the circles area on the trunk from some idiot’s misuse of a rotary buffer.

My questions?

Note: The car is a metallic black, officially “Black Sapphire Metallic.” It is complete factory paint; no accidents.

1) With the Flex would I be able to remove all light scratches and micro marring scratches to where I see no lines or spider webbing around the light when I use the Scangrip? Can I get it to be micromarring and spider webbing free?

2) How many if any of these prior automatic car wash detailing scratches could I get out without seriously harming the clear coat?

3) What should I expect is the best result from 3 year old BMW Black Metallic paint that was garage kept but damaged with automatic car washes?

I honestly wish Mike was here at my house and he could teach me and solve these problems with me. I would love to have him over and learn from him. I also have a boat out back that needs help and I just completed detailing my other V12 car, a Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG in Iridium Silver and any pointers from him on that would be welcome. But, as you all know, silver paint hides scratches and swirl marks way better than black.

Thank you all for reading, thank you in advance for any help.

 

[V12 Dermatology]

Follow up. I brought the car out in the sunlight in various areas and looking at it from various angles. I use the sun and then stand there and move the sun around the paint as I’m leaning my head all different ways. I’m wearing my sunglasses for protection but my eyes feel damaged from doing this. You can only look so long! So I look for the perceived circular scratches around the sun and the regular scratches that stand out. I also was looking for the holograms in that one area complements of Lewyn Boler.

I did four different checks and it all seems corrected. There are minor fine line spider webbing within about an inch circling the sun and the trunk is better off than the hood as the hood never got Flex XC 3401 time with the wool pad. The holograms are also gone. Still can’t believe I let him use a rotary buffer on dirty paint. Why not throw sand on the car and then spin up to 2,500 rpm and see what happens? So it’s pretty much fixed but I wouldn’t say there are zero spider web scratches.

Is this what I should expect? Is it going to be perfect? I don’t want to keep buffing the car as I’ll be keeping it for the long term. 99% of people would not be able to see the defects I’m pointing out. A absolute pro like Mike Phillips would, but even car guys wouldn’t notice. I guess that’s why I was an auto detailer.
I have an eye for detail.

Thanks again for reading.

 

[V12 Dermatology]

UPDATE.

Demoralized. Beat Down. Perplexed.

So all my sunlight checks today looked great and I felt the car’s micro marring, holograms, and the damage left over from the synthetic cutting cream were gone. I thus fully washed the car at night (as I usually do) and dried it off with fresh, clean towels. I had also used the soft paint brush to clear up the residual product that was left over in crevices, etc. I then proceeded to check over the car with the Scangrip and what did I find?

* A cross hatch pattern of uneven polishing on the hood.

* Fine broad scratches or holograms from (I believe) the towels I used to dry off the car. These are regular shower cotton towels that were clean and fresh from the dryer.

* New small scratches on the hood and trunk from (I believe) the speed 6 polishing with a soft foam pad using the Flex XC 3401.

I washed the car with Wash/Wax, a great product from Production Car Care that doesn’t strip your wax, and (I think) adds some on there. BUT it seemed after the wash my paint was stripped of any product (much like a mineral spirits I think) and laid bare.

So I freaked and became demoralized. I felt like Hudson in Aliens “Maybe we got them demoralized …”. After some harsh language I put a fresh coat of carnauba wax on the hood and trunk and … all problems were solved and it looked great again.

So can anyone help me? I truly wish I could bring the car to Mike or have Mike come to the car somehow. I need his wisdom, guidance, and expertise.

I feel the hood paint is “impressionable.” It was a term I coined when finding paint that would reflect whatever you did to it. Also when the paint had oxidized, but there’s no oxidation here. What about too many car washes with harsh chemicals. Could that make the paint impressionable?

It’s a $174,000 car and the paint has some unique damage to it. I spent 35 hours on the initial detail before I bought the Flex XC 3401. Now with all of my Flex work I say I’m up to 50 hours detailing the car and to me it looks damaged and worse off. It seems every time I touch the car it’s scratched or ruined. I never have owned a black car. Is this what you should expect?

If there is anyone in Northern or Central California here? I can bring the car to you if you have the expertise to help. But for everyone on this forum, I really could use some help. Thank you.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Wow! You've really been through a lot with detailing your own car.


For reference, I found this picture of a 2022 BMW M760i Final V12 in Saphire Metallic Black.

Tick Busy
I'm prepping the garage for some brand-new TV segments for My Classic Car with Dennis Gage next week, so I need to stay busy in the garage getting ready. As soon as I can though, I'm happy to chime in with my thoughts.

I will share this however. FIRST - it's been years, maybe decades since I used any products from Production. But here's what I know, the MOST IMPORTANT factor when it comes to polishing paint and even things like fiberglass, plastics and aluminum, is the ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY. I've met a lot of detailers that think THEY are the most important thing, but as you'll see in the article I link to below, the first thing that's touching the paint is not the PERSON - but the abrasive technology.

And here's the deal. If the abrasive technology is not great, you'll never get great results. And "yes" I know it's the year 2025, but that does not automatically mean everything in a compound or polish bottle is good.

Fact is, MOST manufacturers cannot make their own abrasive technology so they must purchase the grains, or powders from a much larger company that specializes in taking the raw materials and converting them to useable abrasive technology in a compound, polish or All-in-One. This means most companies are purchasing their abrasive technology from companies like Ferro or St. Gobain. Nothing wrong with this but it kind of means most manufactures are purchasing from the same source.

Again, I don't know of the compounds and polishes from Production are great or something else, but the way you test is on BLACK paint. Great abrasive technology is able to remove defects without leaving its own defects behind. And the only way to truly know for sure is to test on soft, black paint, or technically, soft black single stage or soft clearcoat over black. This way you're eyes can more easily see the true results.

Years ago, I tested a product for a big-name company and this new compound was supposed to be great. I sent the manufacturer's rep my results, which I documented with PICTURE - that their new compound/polish left micro-marring in the paint. This included applying it by hand, orbital polisher and rotary polisher. This person fired back in an email that I didn't know what I was talking about. They moved forward and launched the compound/polish and it blew up in their face as people found it did exactly as I photo documented. Since then, they re-introduced it but I have not used it this new formula. Because it's for sale, I can assume they got it right the second time. (hopefully). I also just recently found these pictures.

Here's my article, check it out.

Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint

And as I get time, I'll read through all your info and do what I can to help.

Also for what it's worth, I regularly have people fly from California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho to take my classes. I never disappoint and my write-ups for my classes, (no other instructor does this), proves just how hands-on they truly are.


Hang tight.

Mike

p.s.

If you send me some pictures I can add them to your thread.

Text or Email - try to make sure they are full size, not tiny pictures

760-515-0444
ShowCarGarage@gmail.com


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[V12 Dermatology]

Hi Mike -

Thank you for your reply and I’ll wait for you when you can go over everything. Let me provide some more information.

There are 3 types of scratches on the car:

1) Fine Wave Scratches All Over the Car. I have included a short movie clip that is the best way to see them. These are fine scratches all over the car, in waves, everywhere on the hood, sides, trunk, bumpers - you name it. I think some recent ones are from clean but maybe too rough towels I used to dry off the car. Most others are from the previous owner’s horrible car washes. I assume folks who dropped the wash mitt on the ground and then proceeded to rub the paint. Or holograms from buffers. Or rubbing too hard with towels. But these fine wave scratches are all over the car.

2) Deeper Scratches from Automatic Car Washes. These are from the prior owner and they are deeper scratches that are swooping or straight enough lines in many places on the hood and trunk. Also some scratches on the sides but mostly hood and trunk. They are bad and you can’t believe some idiot did this to a $174k car. Why? Was it so hard to wash it yourself instead of taking it every week to Quick Quack? Or the Drive Thru Car Wash at AM/PM? I think some of these could be erased but how much clear coat will be left? I have decided that these scratches are why I got a 50% discount on the MSRP. I could either pay the full amount or get a CPO with a few scratches for half off. I did half off.

3) Spider Webbing Scratches around the Sun or Scangrip Lignt Source. These are the standard webbing scratches that appear to be circular around the light source. Some panels are better than others. The Hood and Trunk have less of these now based on what work I did on them with the Beast.

Then there is the damage of the cross hatch pattern I see on the hood. As mentioned above I did many speed 6 passes with a softer foam pad on the hood and you can see them now in the hood with areas of lighter and darker paint. I overlapped by 50% as recommended but inflicted this damage to the paint. See my notes above about this.

BUT, AND THE BIG BUT … If you put a thin coat of high quality Carnauba Wax over any of these panels then 95 - 98% of the problems disappear. Then the paint is back to scratch free and beautiful. But I can’t wax the car each time after I wash it. I’ve already done a two to three coat Teflon sealant on the car and then overlaid the carnauba wax. Even after one wash with Wash/Wax soap the problems return.

Mike, is this just what you should expect with a black car? Even if it’s a metallic black? I still say 99% of people couldn’t even understand what I’m talking about, or see that the car is flawed. However I have now spent 50+ hours on detailing the exterior of this car. That’s right, I’ve spent at least 50 hours detailing the exterior only. Is that crazy? Am I nuts? And I think the car has major problems after all this effort!

Honestly I believe only someone of your caliber could see and solve these problems.

Thank you!

Epilogue. My Wife sent this to me today:

“I love you and want you to be happy and peaceful. Please keep Black Beauty in perspective. It is a 3 year old car that someone else drove and took care of differently than you would. The average person looks at Black Beauty and sees a fabulous performance automobile with elegant lines and a powerful engine and luxurious finishes and never sees any scratches.”