Forced Rotation polisher with wool or microfiber pads

[GregE]

Mike,
As always great job and all the luck to you going forward with this new endeavor.
I recently purchased the Flex XCE 10-8-125
forced rotation polisher. I read somewhere that you should not use wool or microfiber pads with a forced rotation polisher, main reason given it will generate to much heat. True? Your input would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Greg

 

[Mike Phillips]

Mike,
As always great job and all the luck to you going forward with this new endeavor.

Thank you.

I recently purchased the Flex XCE 10-8-125 forced rotation polisher.

Actually, or technically, you purchased the FLEX XCE 10-8-125 Forced Rotation and FORCED OSCILLATION polishers.

A forced rotation is a rotary polisher. The XCE is 2 actions - rotation and oscillation.

As someone that writes about these tools a lot, I notice in the Facebook, YouTube and Instagram worlds, most guys don't invest the time to add all the words.

Not a big deal but if you think about it - a forced rotation polisher, if that's all you're saying about it - is a rotary polisher.

I read somewhere that you should not use wool or microfiber pads with a forced rotation polisher, main reason given it will generate to much heat. True? Your input would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Greg

The original reason I stopped using and rarely recommended any type of fiber pads is because in most cases, they are too,

Grabby


The year was 2012 - so the term was coined 11 years ago as I type in the year 2023. At least for now, I can click on the below link and pull-up my write-up from 2012.

2012 Dodge Challenger + Menzerna Color Lock Makeover

From what I wrote in post #31

I've been asked a lot since microfiber pads have been introduced which pads for which tools and here's what I know...

For tools with a free floating spindle bearing assembly, the thin, stiffer microfiber pads work well.

For any of the gear-driven tools, for example rotary buffers and the Flex 3401, then microfiber pads with a thicker foam core buff better while thin microfiber pads are grabby.[/color]

So my own personal experience, is microfiber pads BACK THEN (11 years ago), tended to be too grabby when buffing with gear-driven orbital polishers. They were and are smooth with free spinning random orbital polishers. I have not met anyone that likes it when the pad on their polisher is grabbing onto the paint and then yanking the polisher around, which in turn yanks around the person holding the polisher.


Improvements in fiber pads
Since those day, or to fast-forward a decade, I think there's been a lot of improvements in the design of microfiber pads.

I don't remember heat at the surface level being a problem for anyone that knows what they are doing and this would mean - keep the polisher moving - don't hold the buffing pad in one place for too long as it will create heat.


Type of liquid
Another factor as to how a pad will work is the product or liquid you're using. Compounds, polishes and AIOs all have some form of lubricating oils, carrying agents, solvents, etc. Some products offer more lubrication or slip than others. This can have a noticeable effect on how any type of pad feels and performs on a polisher.


LIVE TEST - In the Present

You made me curious. Normally if I need fast cutting action for deeper defects or for hard paint I simply use a wool pad on a rotary polisher. But you made me curious. So just now I went out into the garage and tested the Redline 6.25" All-in-One Microfiber pad on my personal CBEAST, which is a forced rotation - forced oscillation 8mm orbital polisher and it worked great.


My input would be - some microfiber pads will work great on gear-driven orbital polishers. The applicable factors are,

• Type of pad - foam backing on the pad helps as does a short fiber length.
• Type of product - a high lubricity compound, polish and/or AIO should buff well.
• Technique? - Keep the polisher moving and use more than 3 Pea Sized Drops of product.

To be honest, I simply have not used microfiber pads on gear-driven orbitals for the last few years and my normal go-to for heavy cutting is a wool pad on the cordless FLEX PE-150. I know not everyone owns a rotary or is comfortable with a rotary so I'll endeavor to spend some more time with microfiber pads on gear-driven orbitals moving forward.

One thing for sure - fiber pads cut better than foam pads. The down side of fiber pads is because each individual fiber cuts the paint - you cannot always finish out on soft to medium paints as the fibers will leave micro-marring in the finish.


Mike

 

[GregE]

Mike thank you so much for your very detailed reply, I truly appreciate the effort you made to answer my question and share your valuable knowledge. Don’t get no better, you even did a live test for me with with the Redline microfiber all in one pad. I will be purchasing some soon to try myself.
Best Regards,
Greg

 

[Mike Phillips]

Mike thank you so much for your very detailed reply, I truly appreciate the effort you made to answer my question and share your valuable knowledge. Don’t get no better, you even did a live test for me with with the Redline microfiber all in one pad. I will be purchasing some soon to try myself.
Best Regards,
Greg

Just to add...

I recently detailed and ceramic coated a brand new 2003 Audi A6 allroad, From the dealership it had HORRIBLE circular scratches all along the driver's side windows. There were holograms on the rear roof spoiler and two sections of paint on the hood about the size of a human hand where someone had rubbed on the paint.


For the scratches over the top of the driver's side windows, I put this same microfiber pad on the Supa BEAST and with a compound removed them 100%. The rest of the car I was able to fix using foam. I think I still have the videos and of course I have pictures for a full write-up - it's just "time".

NOTE: About the Audi model allroad

(I checked, it does appear Audio purposefully spells the words all road - run-togehter and all in lower case)

Mike

 

[Mike Phillips]

More...

For anyone that has read-through this thread and would like to test out the microfiber pad I mentioned above, here's the link to 2 sizes.

5.25" Redline All-In-One Microfiber Pad

6.25" Redline All-In-One Microfiber Pad




-Mike Phillips

 

[DanaDetail]

This is all so relevant to me. Especially over my last few details. Thank you mike so much!

 

[Mike Phillips]

This is all so relevant to me. Especially over my last few details. Thank you mike so much!

No problemo...


This last weekend, our class detailed 8 cars in 3 days including MACHINE DRY SANDING 2 Muscle Cars. I'll be documenting the hell out of this first class - stay tuned.

To your topic - during the class one person asked me about using microfiber pads on orbital polishers. I took the time to SHOW the class MICRO-MARRING from a microfiber pad.

1: First I machine polished the black paint on the 1957 Ford Thunderbird to perfection.​

​

2: Next I re-polished JUST a portion of this section using the same tool, same product but only swapped to a microfiber pad.​

​

3: I chemically stripped all of the paint and then used a SCANGRIP light to reveal the micro-marring on the side I used the microfiber pad.​

Conclusion and what I always teach, preach and practice. I have not had time to go through the 1,200+ pictures and videos taken over the course of the 3-day class but my guess it - at a minimum, there will be pictures of me doing this comparison test on the T-bird.


FIBERS ARE ABRASIVES

Happy to go deeper if anyone wants more real-world information about fiber pads on this forum. OR - Go to ANY OTHER FORUM, FACEBOOK GROUP, YouTube Channel or Instagram Channel and PLEASE ask all the same questions on any other persons platform and then judge the quality and accuracy of the information you get there with what you get here.


-Mike

 

[paul a.]

Superb info, Mike. Thank you.

I am also a wool or cutting MF on my rotary guy for serious work on harder, hacked up paint. With that said I am looking for a good combo to get similar results using my Flex 3401 to MAYBE get down to a 1 step cut/polish for SOME customers. Just the old "time is money" application.

Rotary cutting always means more than 1 step as I need to refine holo's, haze etc. after.

Oh and...I don't need to go anywhere else to ask these questions! . Been there for years and i know what I get from you.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Superb info, Mike. Thank you.

I am also a wool or cutting MF on my rotary guy for serious work on harder, hacked up paint. With that said I am looking for a good combo to get similar results using my Flex 3401 to MAYBE get down to a 1 step cut/polish for SOME customers.

The Lake Country Microfiber Pads we sell on AutoForge seem to work fine on the BEAST. I've only used 3.5" microfiber pads for rotary work in the recent months and it worked great too but at least part of the reason why is due to the small size. Microfiber pads on rotary are going to generate a lot of heat fast so a person has to be careful. I was buffing out scratches along the tops of the driver's side windows on a brand new Audi A6 openroad. I have a video - just need time to process.

I'm also a fan of the RUPES Coarse Blue Wool Polishing Pads - they kind of look like a microfiber pad with their very short nap but RUPES calls them wool pads. I remember using these a lot for heavy cutting with the BEASTS when I was still at the geek.

Since you asked, I stepped out into the AutoForge Garage and took these pictures. The 1968 Mustang Fastback in the background is one of the cars my class machine dry sanded this last Sunday, then polished to perfection and then ceramic coated. Not bad for one day and this also includes the 1987 Monte Carlo SS the class sanded, cut, polished and coated.



The pad on the left is the LC Redline All-in-One Microfiber Polishing Pad we carry at AutoForge. The pad on the right is the RUPES Coarse Blue Wool Polishing Pads that we do not carry at this time.

The FLEX Family of BEAST Tools

For those reading this into the future, (lurkers), if you don't know or have some confusion - that's normal. From the top left and moving down to the lower right

The FLEX XC 3401 VRG aka The BEAST

The FLEX XCE 10-8 125 aka The Supa BEAST

The FLEX SCE 8-125 aka The CBEAST

And if you purchase the Supa BEAST, the CBEAST or the Finisher, be sure to get the optional FLEX 6" backing plate right from the get-go and this lets you take advantage of all the power these tools offer while you also invest your Pad Budget into larger pads that fit the backing plate. The larger footprint of the pads also smooths out the felt-action of the tool to you. Notice all my Supa BEASTS, CBEASTS and Finishers have the 6" backing plate swap.

Just the old "time is money" application.

Yup. My own personal style of detailing is like my style of photography at car shows,

Get in, get out.

Rotary cutting always means more than 1 step as I need to refine holo's, haze etc. after.

Copy that. I have 3 basic exterior detailing packages,

1. Show Car Package 1
2. Show Car Package 2
3. Show Car Package 3

If a customer wants the best finish possible - this means me removing as many of the paint defects as safely possible - then it's Show Car Package 3 and after a Prep Wash I cut with a wool pad on the cordless FLEX PE-150 followed by usually the BEAST or the Supa BEAST depending upon how hard the paint is and how fast I want to get done. If the paint is on the soft side and I"m not in a hurry, (rare), then I'll use the CBEAST.

But it is all about the number of steps and the time required to do each step.

Oh and...I don't need to go anywhere else to ask these questions! . Been there for years and i know what I get from you.

Thanks Paul. Just doing the same thing I've always done - help others.


-Mike

 

[paul a.]

Thanks Mike. You continue to be the best.