Learn to Remove Orange Peel for a Show Car Finish via Machine Dry Sanding!

[Mike Phillips]

Learn to Remove Orange Peel for a Show Car Finish via Machine Dry Sanding!

Next class is Friday September 29th, (paint correction day), Saturday September 30th (dry sanding day), and Sunday October 1st (extreme boat detailing day).

Call or text me to sign-up for this class. See the cars and boats you’ll be training on by clicking the link below

Training Cars and Boats for the September 3-Day Class

Training Cars and Boats for the September 3-Day Class Friday Class Topics Morning Session - Multiple Step Paint Corrections learning how to use rotary polishers, orbital polishers, plus Dr. Beasley's NSP Primers & Ceramic Coatings. 1937 Ford 2-door Sedan Delivery Streetrod -...

themikephillipsforum.com

Call or text me with questions

769-515-0444

Mike

 

[Mak]

Glad I watched this. Thought I was all set to go but looks like I need to order one of the thinner micro-hook interface pads… All I had purchased was the thicker soft foal pads. Getting ready to try my first cut and buff on a single-stage paint job I sprayed last fall on my old F100. I put down 3 coats, sanded flat with 600 and then sprayed another 2 coats on top of that (Although my coats tend to be thin because of that “sag & run” fear) and I end up with more orange peel and texture than I would otherwise…
I’ve planned on starting with the Eagle 1000 film, then move to the 1500 film, 2500 Buflex, and finally Trizact 8000. Then on to a wool pad, followed by black foam to polish.

 

[Mike Phillips]

I’ve planned on starting with the Eagle 1000 film, then move to the 1500 film, 2500 Buflex, and finally Trizact 8000. Then on to a wool pad, followed by black foam to polish.

That's a great multiple-step process you've outlined. I'm confident the final results will look amazing!


Mike

 

[Mak]

That's a great multiple-step process you've outlined. I'm confident the final results will look amazing!


Mike

I wish I was as confident. I’m fairly sure I’m going to burn through, leave sanding marks and otherwise destroy the end result of what has been a multi year restoration.

 

[Mike Phillips]

I wish I was as confident. I’m fairly sure I’m going to burn through, leave sanding marks and otherwise destroy the end result of what has been a multi year restoration.

Take your time, don't rush. You got this!


Also, for what it's worth, here's what I practice and teach in my classes.

Video: The Rule of Thumb - Sanding techniques by Mike Phillips


And I just saw after revisiting this article that I must have forgot to add the video? I'll look to see if I still have it with this same truck used in the picture above and if I do, I'll upload to YouTube and insert here.


Mike

 

[Mak]

Take your time, don't rush. You got this!


Also, for what it's worth, here's what I practice and teach in my classes.

Video: The Rule of Thumb - Sanding techniques by Mike Phillips


And I just saw after revisiting this article that I must have forgot to add the video? I'll look to see if I still have it with this same truck used in the picture above and if I do, I'll upload to YouTube and insert here.


Mike

Great tip. thank you.

 

[Mak]

Well, dipped my toe in the water this morning.
I started with a test section on the back of my cab which will be hidden behind the bed. Fortunately that is one spot that for some reason is among the worst for texture, so a good spot to practice. Think I was going too fast there and got a dry spray on the final coat.
Photos are not great, but tried to get the first shot showing the bad texture. Then one after 1000, 1500, and 2500. Another after the 5000. Then is after the wool pad with compound, and a few pics from after the foam pad and polish. Far from a professional job but if I can get through this without burning through, get the trash out, and flatten some of the orange peel and dry-sprayed areas, I can live with a few barely-there swirls and scratches.
Going to take a lot of practice/experience to get the hang of knowing how many passes with each abrasive stage. First stage with the 1000 is easiest because I can actually see the orange peel and stop when it’s nearly gone… Having a tough time with the finer abrasives after that and being able to see or know when all the previous grits scratches are gone. Heck, I’m having a tough time learning how much water to spray and keep on the surface with the Buflex and Trizact.
Several more stupid questions:
What setting/speed should I be running the Flex Beast with the wool pad? Foam polishing? I’ve been using 1….
I know the potential for burn through would be greater with a faster speed using my standard rotary, but wasn’t sure if faster speeds is more likely to cause noticeable pigtails or the RO scratches at faster vs slower…
How do I know how much compound is too much or not enough? How often should I be using the pad washer?
Sorry for all the rookie questions.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Well, dipped my toe in the water this morning.
I started with a test section on the back of my cab which will be hidden behind the bed. Fortunately that is one spot that for some reason is among the worst for texture, so a good spot to practice. Think I was going too fast there and got a dry spray on the final coat.
Photos are not great, but tried to get the first shot showing the bad texture. Then one after 1000, 1500, and 2500. Another after the 5000. Then is after the wool pad with compound, and a few pics from after the foam pad and polish. Far from a professional job but if I can get through this without burning through, get the trash out, and flatten some of the orange peel and dry-sprayed areas, I can live with a few barely-there swirls and scratches.
Going to take a lot of practice/experience to get the hang of knowing how many passes with each abrasive stage. First stage with the 1000 is easiest because I can actually see the orange peel and stop when it’s nearly gone… Having a tough time with the finer abrasives after that and being able to see or know when all the previous grits scratches are gone. Heck, I’m having a tough time learning how much water to spray and keep on the surface with the Buflex and Trizact.

Looking great so far!

Several more stupid questions:
What setting/speed should I be running the Flex Beast with the wool pad? Foam polishing? I’ve been using 1….
I know the potential for burn through would be greater with a faster speed using my standard rotary, but wasn’t sure if faster speeds is more likely to cause noticeable pigtails or the RO scratches at faster vs slower…
How do I know how much compound is too much or not enough? How often should I be using the pad washer?
Sorry for all the rookie questions.

I don't use wool pads on the BEAST any more. If I need the cutting power of a fiber pad I use a wool pad on a rotary .

When I use the BEAST, Supa BEAST or CBEAST - I'm almost always on the 6 speed setting unless I'm going up on edge to detail something intricate or a thin panel.

Use the rotary on around 1200rpm and clean your pad often. Buff until scratches are gone.

Use enough compound/polish so that after spreading the product over the surface to be buffed you can see a light film of product.


You would love one of our 3-day classes. Have to go - going LIVE in a few minutes.

Mike

 

[Mak]

You would love one of our 3-day classes. Have to go - going LIVE in a few minutes.

Mike

I wish I had found your site sooner and I would have already been through one. I’ll have to figure out how to make it happen one of these days. (Even though it will be after all the damage has been done.)
Even so, I still have my 68 Cougar I’ll be staring on next so at least it can look better than this one.

 

[Mak]

I don't use wool pads on the BEAST any more. If I need the cutting power of a fiber pad I use a wool pad on a rotary .

When I use the BEAST, Supa BEAST or CBEAST - I'm almost always on the 6 speed setting unless I'm going up on edge to detail something intricate or a thin panel.

Use the rotary on around 1200rpm and clean your pad often. Buff until scratches are gone.

Feels safer with the 3401 RO… Slower I know but it looks like it will get the scratches out. I was wondering until now if I would have to use the Rotary even though I’ve seen folks say they use a RO. Only experience I have with a Rotary is using it recently when tackling that polished aluminum problem. I definitely struggled to keep it flat and under control so was really afraid one wrong move and I would ruin the paint…

 

[Mak]

I’m so frustrated right now. Thought it was going well and now I’ve got a roof loaded with RO scratches and I have no idea what it’s from…
Appears that they are a result of after I ran the compound with the wool pad, but I don’t know how to isolate what caused the issue or how to fix. Seemed to be a lot more scratches before running the foam polishing pad than I had seen prior on the test panel.
I went through the exact same process as I did for the practice areas on the rest of the cab. I actually spent more time and made more passes with the 1500, 2500 Buflex, and Trizact 8000, trying to be sure I didn’t leave any scratches from the prior grits.
I was careful to wipe the panel clean with fresh microfiber cloths between each stage.
I was extra careful to keep my wool pad and foam pad clean and covered in between uses.
I think it looked smoother and more scratch-free before I used the wool pad.
I’m assuming the scratches were introduced when I used the wool buffing pad… If so, I just thought of one difference being that I ran on the highest speed this time when I used the lowest on my first test panel. The only other difference I just thought of was that I used a metal pad spur before I started the roof. It’s the same spur that I had previously used on the wool pad I had used when polishing the aluminum on the Panoz. Now I’m wondering if that spur introduced contaminates to the pad which then caused the scratching?
Aaaaagh! Now I’m wondering if I should be using a foam medium cutting pad stead of the wool. Unfortunately don’t have one on hand to go try. I guess I can go try a new fresh wool pad.
Ugh. I knew this wouldn’t go smoothly.
Could not get a photo to show the issue. Hoping the sun will come out in a while so I can push outside and maybe get some decent pics.

 

[Mike Phillips]

I’m so frustrated right now. Thought it was going well and now I’ve got a roof loaded with RO scratches and I have no idea what it’s from…

Appears that they are a result of after I ran the compound with the wool pad, but I don’t know how to isolate what caused the issue or how to fix. Seemed to be a lot more scratches before running the foam polishing pad than I had seen prior on the test panel.

What is the compound you're using?

 

[Mak]

What is the compound you're using?

3D ACA 510

 

[Mak]

Best pics I can get. Extreme close-up. Scratch pattern is consistent over the whole panel even though it can only bee seen right where the sun is hitting it. Easker to see by eye in the garage.
The large radius more random scratches I didn’t really notice in the dimmer light. The tiny small radius RO scratches that almost overlap and can be seen on the entire panel is what noticeable in the dimmer indoor light.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Ouch...

To me, the large pigtails I see in this resized picture look like polishing induced
scratches.

And I lean towards your thoughts that this is from a contaminated pad.

If it were me? I would get a new wool pad and use a rotary polisher and then test to see if the wool pad on a rotary with the 510 will remove these defects.

If not - you'll have to sand to level the paint and then remove the sanding marks.

I think you're going to continue running into these types of problems if you continue to use a wool pad on the BEAST.

I tried a few times in my life to use the FLEX BEAST with wool pads and always found they tend to scour the paint.

This is me last night, removing scratches out of the roof of a 1968 Charger. The rotary polisher is like a scalpel when used correctly.

Get a new pad and see if you can undo the damage. Maybe consider taking my 3-day class in May, it's going to completely hands-on and the first car you're going to learn how to use the rotary polisher on is a 1941 Grahm Hollywood.

I've actually ordered the 3M Trizact 3000 and 5000 sanding discs in 6" and 3" to machine sand the 1941 Grahm Hollywood Streetrod.

This be a great START to a great class.

May 3-Day Class - Training Cars and Boats - No chairs. No sitting. No PowerPoint

Airports - Hotels - Restaurants - Plus things to do in Stuart Florida!


Mike

 

[Mak]

Ok. grabbed a fresh wool pad and did a large section. Third pic is after the new wool pad and before the foam polishing. After the foam polishing pad it looks much better (The first two pics)
Both pads still on the beast. I tried before I saw your suggestion telling me again to try the Rotaty…. That scares me to death but I’ll go give that a shot next.
thanks so much for the help and advice. I’m definitely feeling like a bother to you now since nobody else seems to be participating .ive got to figure out how i can get in one of your classes in the future.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Ok. grabbed a fresh wool pad and did a large section. Third pic is after the new wool pad and before the foam polishing. After the foam polishing pad it looks much better (The first two pics)
Both pads still on the beast.

Good to hear!

I tried before I saw your suggestion telling me again to try the Rotary…. That scares me to death but I’ll go give that a shot next.

Learning the way of the rotary is simply a matter of spending a lot of time behind the rotary. Once you master the rotary - you'll have a valuable skill set that will save you time and enable you to remove serious defects so much faster than any orbital polisher.

thanks so much for the help and advice. I’m definitely feeling like a bother to you now since nobody else seems to be participating .ive got to figure out how i can get in one of your classes in the future.

You're no bother. This forum is not presently busy and I'm okay with that. I primarily use it for my own projects. If others want to join and contribute in a positive manner, I'm open to it.

I would be more active if I had more time, I just have so many other projects that require physical action or typing action.

 

[Mak]

Well, can’t get a good pic inside with my poor lighting but after going over it with the foam pad, I can live with the results.
My assumption at this stage is that the original wool pad was contaminated when I used the cleaning spur…
Fix was using a new foamed wool pad that I had, and hitting it with the Flex 14-2 Rotary. Followed that with the Flex 3401 RO and a black foam pad w/ 520. Both on the highest speeds.
Still some original random RO scratches here and there but I have to really hunt for them and they are not that continual scratch pattern covering the entire surface. Less scratches showing on that one panel than any of my other vehicles so I will leave it alone for now.
Next is on to the scarier stuff… the panels with body lines and sharp edges. Expect to go through several roles of tape….
Fingers crossed that I got those coats of paint on thick enough.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Next is on to the scarier stuff… the panels with body lines and sharp edges. Expect to go through several roles of tape….
Fingers crossed that I got those coats of paint on thick enough.

Yup. Edges and raised body lines - one of the most difficult areas to buff after sanding.

Because this is your own car, you have the option to invest as much time into this project as you like. If it were me? I would still practice "The Rule of Thumb".

I'm getting ready to teach a class how to sand and buff on 2 cars and 1 truck - and one of our primary goals is to not have anyone burn through the edges when it comes to the buffing portion of the class.

Pictures from the 5-day class in Chicago

Pictures from the 5-day class in Chicago Today is the first day of this BIG 5-day class. Yesterday after arriving into Chicago from Florida, we set-up for today. Something happened to the 1960 Impala that we we're scheduled to sand and buff but it's all good as it was replaced by I think, a...

themikephillipsforum.com

Fingers crossed.

 

[Mak]

Yup. Edges and raised body lines - one of the most difficult areas to buff after sanding.

Because this is your own car, you have the option to invest as much time into this project as you like. If it were me? I would still practice "The Rule of Thumb".

I'm getting ready to teach a class how to sand and buff on 2 cars and 1 truck - and one of our primary goals is to not have anyone burn through the edges when it comes to the buffing portion of the class.

Pictures from the 5-day class in Chicago

Pictures from the 5-day class in Chicago Today is the first day of this BIG 5-day class. Yesterday after arriving into Chicago from Florida, we set-up for today. Something happened to the 1960 Impala that we we're scheduled to sand and buff but it's all good as it was replaced by I think, a...

themikephillipsforum.com

Fingers crossed.

That has to be nerve-wracking even much more than usual when dealing with someone else’s car. Especially when you are dealing with other newbies who are doing the work… I had been wondering how that works. When looking at the beautiful cars in your videos and photos, I couldn’t imagine how you don’t run into problems with cutting through paint and clearcoat when you have that many people working on the vehicle who are all just learning. Not to mention having layers of unknown mil thickness to begin with…