Older ceramic coating

[Jeffb]

Plan to ceramic coat my Toyota Avalon with Dr Beasley Nano Resin MX,

Presently coated with Carpro CQuartz UZk 3.0. Around 2 years old.

Plan to use NSP 45, do I need to use another product to remove Ceramic?

Thank You!

 

[Mike Phillips]

Plan to ceramic coat my Toyota Avalon with Dr Beasley Nano Resin MX,

Presently coated with Carpro CQuartz UZk 3.0. Around 2 years old.

Plan to use NSP 45, do I need to use another product to remove Ceramic?

Thank You!

This is a GREAT question. The Dr. Beasley's NSP 45 is a fine cut polish, with a foam polishing pad on an orbital polisher, it may be able to completely abrade off the current coating.

Here's how I would test.

• Place a tapeline down on the hood or trunk lid, a horizontal panel you can look down on.
• Polish on one side of the tape line like you will normally plan to do the entire car.
• Wipe off the reside, remove the tape, and then do a Panel Wipe just to make sure anything topical on both sides is removed.
• Then spray the panel with water and pay attention to how the water reacts to both sides - the old coating side and the freshly polished side.

If you still see signs of water beading on the CarPro side, but the water is laying flat on the NSP 45 side - then I think this will be a good indicator that the NSP 45 abraded all the old coating off the paint.

If you don't have a panel wipe, normal hardware store mineral spirits will work. You could also wash the test panel with a detergent wash like Dawn dishwashing soap.


Mike

 

[Jeffb]

Much Appreciated, have Eraser, so will proceed as suggested!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

You could also wash the test panel with a detergent wash like Dawn dishwashing soap.

I don't know if you remember this, but over at AGO for a while a guy was posting who was a chemist at a detailing product blender in the UK, who along with some testing from SwanicYouth, kind of "proved" that Dawn and a lot of other things can "clog" (at that time) waxes and sealants, and make it seem that they are gone because the beading is flat. I have the threads bookmarked but of course they aren't working now, but the chemist had a hood with sealant on it, which was beading, washed it with some sort of dish detergent, it was flat, IPA-wiped, beading came back.

He said he knew that a good sealant was impossible to remove with dish soap because when they would clean the mixing vats at the blender, they had to scrub with toluene or xylene to get the sealant residue off. Whether the Dawn surfactants will clog a coating, I don't know.

PS The whole thing threw a new light on the idea that you could get a "virgin" surface to try a new LSP by washing with Dawn, when likely your new LSP was going down on top of a layer of Dawn sheeting surfactants (to keep from getting water spots on your dishes), which was attached to your old LSP.

 

[Mike Phillips]

I don't know if you remember this, but over at AGO for a while a guy was posting who was a chemist at a detailing product blender in the UK, who along with some testing from SwanicYouth, kind of "proved" that Dawn and a lot of other things can "clog" (at that time) waxes and sealants, and make it seem that they are gone because the beading is flat. I have the threads bookmarked but of course they aren't working now, but the chemist had a hood with sealant on it, which was beading, washed it with some sort of dish detergent, it was flat, IPA-wiped, beading came back.

He said he knew that a good sealant was impossible to remove with dish soap because when they would clean the mixing vats at the blender, they had to scrub with toluene or xylene to get the sealant residue off. Whether the Dawn surfactants will clog a coating, I don't know.

PS The whole thing threw a new light on the idea that you could get a "virgin" surface to try a new LSP by washing with Dawn, when likely your new LSP was going down on top of a layer of Dawn sheeting surfactants (to keep from getting water spots on your dishes), which was attached to your old LSP.

All good but I mean wash with Dawn - OR - use a panel wipe or mineral spirits to SIMPLY clean the surface after polishing ONE side of the tape line to visually see if there's any noticeable difference.

This person is wanting to remove the CarPro coating before installing the Dr. Beasley's coating. I'm not sure if NSP 45 has enough bite as it is a FINE cut polish. Even an Ultra Fine cut polish.

That said - Jeff says this coating has been on there for 2 years. My thinking is - TEST the NSP 45 and see if it looks like it's removing the old coating using some type of VISUAL test. Please share any ther ways to accuratly know if a polishing step removes and old coating. The Dawn wash, isn't to remove the coating, it's to remove the NanoGel that the Nano Abrasive technology is embodied in for our Primers.

Of course, Jeff could always use something more aggressive and not even worry about it.

Here's what I know. I've had to do SPOT REPAIRS to installed coatings, and for the most part, most polishes with a polishing pad, an orbital polisher and a few solid section passes WILL REMOVE the coating. So I'm not trying to play chemist or make this more difficult than it needs to be, just help Jeff remove and know he has removed, the old coating.


Makes sense?


Mike

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't trying to make things more complicated, as you noted above it's sometimes hard to resolve if you have actually removed an LSP. I'll bear in mind how fine NSP 45 is since I'm itching to try those polishes.

 

[Mike Phillips]

Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't trying to make things more complicated, as you noted above it's sometimes hard to resolve if you have actually removed an LSP. I'll bear in mind how fine NSP 45 is since I'm itching to try those polishes.

It's always natural for detailing to be complicated, the trick is to unpack that box and make it simple.


Mike

 

[Jeffb]

Thanks for the update; plan on starting process next week. Will let you know about NSP 45

 

[Dsholes78]

Thanks for the update; plan on starting process next week. Will let you know about NSP 45

I think you’ll be happy with it

 

[Jeffb]

I was finally able to start this project after unexpected delays. This morning decided with the weather at 60 degrees in Indiana and a portable heater in the garage, this might be the last opportunity before lower temps and winter weather.

As Mike suggested, taped off an area on hood and tried NSP45 with a white pad and Griots G9. Not satisfied, so tried an orange light cutting pad and was successful.

Started to correct the rest of hood and the G9 became very intermittent. The Griots unit is several years old, but has only been used for seven corrections. Troubleshot with no improvement. Checked with Griots and they will repair or replace.

Wanted to protect the area that was tested, so ended up doing the whole car with Blackfire SiO2.

Plan is to wait until Spring and use the new Gloss Builder after correction and Nano Resin MX.

Sometimes thing happen go a reason!

 

[Mike Phillips]

I was finally able to start this project after unexpected delays. This morning decided with the weather at 60 degrees in Indiana and a portable heater in the garage, this might be the last opportunity before lower temps and winter weather.

I'm so glad I live in South Florida. Even when it rains, at least the rain is warm.

As Mike suggested, taped off an area on hood and tried NSP45 with a white pad and Griots G9. Not satisfied, so tried an orange light cutting pad and was successful.

Sounds right. NSP 45 is probably best described as a FINE cut polish, so not a lot of cut but GREAT finishing results especially on soft paint.

Started to correct the rest of hood and the G9 became very intermittent. The Griots unit is several years old, but has only been used for seven corrections. Troubleshot with no improvement. Checked with Griots and they will repair or replace.

Griot's provides GREAT customer service, I'm sure they will take care of you.

I still own one of the very first G9 polishers, given to me by Doug Hodge at Griot's when they were first introduced, (retired now).

Never had a problem with it and recently I used it to do the final polishing step for polishing and aluminum car hauler.

How to Polish Aluminum | Complete Guide

Plan is to wait until Spring and use the new Gloss Builder after correction and Nano Resin MX.

Sometimes thing happen for a reason!

See this fresh article,

The RhopointAmericas.com Detailometer for DOI, Haze, Rspec, and Gloss by Mike Phillips

Mike