Using Paintwork Cleansing Lotions

Bill G

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2023
Messages
35
Reaction score
21
Points
8
Location
San Diego, CA
Mike,

I caught your two full detailing videos from 2013 with Wolfgang and Pinnacle products. I haven't used a paintwork cleansing lotion begore as I usually just use a finish polish if needed then a paint prep wipedown before using McKee's Graphene DGCS (my new preferred sealant). It sounds like if the paint really doesn't need to be abraded (even with a micro polish) that this is a product that should be used before applying an annual or semi-annual sealant. What are your thoughts on the various ones offered like P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser, Pinnacle Paintwork Cleansing Lotion, Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer? Are they pretty much all the same? And is Mckee's Coating Prep Polish targeted at paint that is going to be coated while the others are more targeted at sealed and waxed paint surfaces? Lastly, do you use a panel prep wipedown after using these products or just lay the sealants/waxes/coatings over them?

Regards
 
Hi Bill,

Thank you for the question. I love questions. :)

I'm am NOT a big fan of most paint cleaners. I thin I explain why in an article I wrote in 2019 on the geeky forum. I'll copy and paste below.

Heading out to detail a 1958 Studebaker, you know, walking the talk. will be behind my computer later today or tomorrow.


:)
 
A paint cleaner is an either/or product - The difference between a paint cleaner and a paint polish by Mike Phillips


There's always been a TON of confusion over paint cleaners. I remember back when Meguiar's sold their 3-Step consumer line of product that included a paint cleaner, a paint polish and a wax. The paint cleaner was NON-abrasive, chemical cleaning only. (I have a story about that product). Besides Meguiar's, a lot of other companies offer a simple, chemical-only cleaning product generically called a paint cleaner.


What is a paint cleaner?
A paint cleaner is typically cleans the surface of the paint to remove light oxidization, surface impurities, built-up wax, gloss enhancers, shine ingredients, etc. It LIGHTLY cleans or REMOVES anything sitting on the top surface to reveal a fresh base of paint. This prepares the paint to accept a coat of wax or synthetic sealant. For paint in new or like new condition, that is paint that either does NOT have below surface defects like swirls and scratches, or for people that DON'T care about removing below surface defects like swirls and scratches, a paint cleaner is a necessary product to use after washing and before applying a NON-cleaning wax or sealant.

Non-cleaning waxes and sealants - Show Car Waxes - Show Car Sealants
Most of the waxes and sealants at your local auto parts stores are one-step cleaner/waxes. The online world calls these AIOs. A cleaner/wax, or a cleaner/sealant or an AIO are all the EXACT same thing, just different words to give them a name. These types of products do 3 things in one step,
  1. Clean
  2. Polish
  3. Protect

Non-Cleaning Waxes - Finishing Waxes - Show Car Waxes
Another group of waxes and/or sealants offer ZERO cleaning ability, at your local auto parts stores, these would be Meguiar's M21 Hi Tech Yellow Wax or Mothers California Gold Carnauba Wax. There might be other non-cleaning waxes at the retail level but historically, these are two such product that have been consistently available.


Here's the deal...

For neglected paint you can get away with a one-step cleaner/wax. But you CANNOT use a non-cleaning wax. The reasons should be obvious but if you don't know why - the paint on a daily driver gets a dirt stain on it from exposure to the world. A cleaner/wax will remove this dirt stain and leave the paint looking CLEAR and shiny while also protecting it. A NON-CLEANING wax or sealant will NOT remove road film or dirt staining. It also won't remove any oxidation or other surface impurities. In fact, it will seal all these negative substances ONTO the paint.

This is historically where paint cleaner fits into the car waxing process. If you're going to us a non-cleaning wax or sealant on a daily driver or on neglected paint, you would first use a paint cleaner.


What is a paint polish?
A true paint polish contain some form of ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY. In my opinion and experience, the abrasive technology used by any brand of compounds and polishes is either GREAT or it's crap. There is no in-between because it either works, or it doesn't. If the abrasive technology works this means it can be moved over a painted surface where it will remove below surface defects WITHOUT leaving it's own mark or scratch. If it doesn't work, this means sure it will remove below surface defects but it replaces them with it's own defects usually called micro-marring.

Micro-marring is the kind, nice and fluffy way to say scratching.

So bad abrasive technology leaves scratches in the paint. I call this working backwards.


What is a Fine Cut Polish?
A fine cut polish is simply that, it only lightly abrades the surface to remove only a small amount of paint. Thus a fine cut polish is only for removing SHALLOW defects or for use after a more aggressive process like using an aggressive compound or a medium cut polish.

A fine cut polish can also be used in place of a paint cleaner as they will do the same thing, lightly clean the surface only a fine cut polish will do MORE than a paint cleaner as it will clean the surface AND remove shallow below surface paint defects.


Paint Cleaner vs Paint Polish

You either use a paint cleaner and move on to your sealing process OR you skip the paint cleaner and use a polish or a compound and polishes and then move onto your sealing process.

You don't use both. This would not only be redundant, it would be a waste of your time, energy and money.


And for what it's worth, I never use paint cleaners except to share what they are and how to use them.

Why?

Because for ALL the work and time it takes to apply a paint cleaner, which hardly does anything, (perfect for some paint and some people, just not me), instead I could use a fine cut polish.

  1. A QUALITY fine cut polish, that is a brand that uses GREAT abrasive technology, will do EVERYTHING a paint cleaner will do and MORE.
  2. A paint cleaner JUST lightly cleans the surface of paint.
  3. A fine cut polish will lightly clean the surface of paint AND remove minor defects.


You get so much more bang for the buck from your time, energy, money and results to use a fine cut polish over a paint cleaner.

But as a co-worker here at Autogeek once said to me when I first came to Autogeek in 2009,

Never spend another man's money


So I'm not saying a paint cleaner is a bad product, it's the perfect product for some people and some paint.

But for me? I know how to use a machine so for the same amount of time, money and effort I would always choose a fine cut polish over a paint cleaner.


Make sense?


And that my cyber friends is the difference between a paint cleaner and a polish.

-Mike Phillips
 
Thanks Mike, and why I have never used one before. Thought it was a waste of time and money as the differences you point out were always obvious to me. But when I saw your old videos, I had to ask in case I was missing something. Like the "nourishing oils" are good for the paint, etc. I guess if my paint was already perfect (or as polished as well as it needs to be considering the removal of v fine scratches vs further removal of clear coat tradeoff goes), and it had been quite a while since I last sealed or waxed it, then maybe. But I have a bottle of the Jescar Micro Cut Polish (cut: a 1/10, or possibly 2/10 with a white pad) in the garage and that always seems to be enough for an annual polish. On my garage queen, collector car, where I do not want to remove any clear coat at this point, then I guess if I ever felt they needed more shine, then I will check one out. Seems like the ones I mentioned are all pretty much the same quality.
 
Thanks Mike, and why I have never used one before. Thought it was a waste of time and money as the differences you point out were always obvious to me.

But when I saw your old videos, I had to ask in case I was missing something.

In those early videos - I didn't fully understand the minds of "marketing people". I'm a practical how-to guy and always thought paint cleaners were a waste of time, energy and money for the reasons I listed above.

Worse than that - some products marketed as non-abrasive paint cleaners will mar your paint versus perfect your car's paint, especially if applied by machine. Fact is - the softness of the paint is a big factor but just the same, a total waste of time, money and effort.


Like the "nourishing oils" are good for the paint, etc. I guess if my paint was already perfect (or as polished as well as it needs to be considering the removal of v fine scratches vs further removal of clear coat tradeoff goes), and it had been quite a while since I last sealed or waxed it, then maybe. But I have a bottle of the Jescar Micro Cut Polish (cut: a 1/10, or possibly 2/10 with a white pad) in the garage and that always seems to be enough for an annual polish. On my garage queen, collector car, where I do not want to remove any clear coat at this point, then I guess if I ever felt they needed more shine, then I will check one out. Seems like the ones I mentioned are all pretty much the same quality.

Like I have always recommended to folks...

Find something you like and use it often

And just to clarify - the word often simply means use it on an as-needed-basis.


-Mike
 
In those early videos - I didn't fully understand the minds of "marketing people". I'm a practical how-to guy and always thought paint cleaners were a waste of time, energy and money for the reasons I listed above.

Worse than that - some products marketed as non-abrasive paint cleaners will mar your paint versus perfect your car's paint, especially if applied by machine. Fact is - the softness of the paint is a big factor but just the same, a total waste of time, money and effort.




Like I have always recommended to folks...

Find something you like and use it often

And just to clarify - the word often simply means use it on an as-needed-basis.


-Mike
Mr. Phillips,

I'm a complete newbie/novice with no paint polishing experience whatsoever, so I bought some Wolfgang Paintwork Polish Enhancer to apply to the Midnight Black Metallic paint on my 2023 Camry LE with my Griot's Garage G8 and G9 polishers before I seal the paint with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant.

I'm thinking that since I'm a complete noob, the Paintwork Polish Enhancer will be a good way to learn how to use my polishers without doing any damage to the clear coat( or removing any of it )on my car's nearly new and very nice looking paint.

My questions for you are as follows:

1. Do you agree with my thinking that the Paintwork Polish Enhancer may be a good way for me to learn how to use my polishers
without damaging or removing any of my clear coat?;

2. I should still chemically decontaminate the paint with an iron remover after washing and drying the paint, correct?:

3. I am NOT planning on mechanically decontaminating the paint with any type of clay media, since I know you always say to polish
after claying and I'm not planning on polishing the paint right now, only using the paint cleaner before sealing. Do you agree with
this approach, or would you recommend I also clay the paint before using the paint cleaner and sealing? I'm thinking claying AND
applying the paint cleaner would be somewhat redundant in addition to possibly marring the very-good condition paint, but I will, of
course, defer to your expert opinion, Sir.

So, I'm thinking my process will be wash, dry, chemically decontaminate, rinse, dry, apply Paint Cleaner with my G8 and G9, and finally, seal with my G8, G9, and Deep Gloss Paint Sealant.

Please let me know your thoughts on my planned process when your busy schedule allows, and Thank You VERY Much for everything you've done for the detailing community over the years. It is Most Appreciated, Sir!

Thanks Very Much for Your Time and Consideration in answering these questions, Mr. Phillips.

Have an AWESOME Day! :)

Todd Clevinger
 
Back
Top